Dragon Ball Z Uncensored

Fagzilla · (Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:52 pm)

I guess one of my points about all this is that nothing arises in a vacuum.

Any major achievement in art or knowledge or whatever is part of a context/tradition and is derivative or informed or helped in some way by the environment in which it came about.

Pulp Fiction and Star Wars exist only because of other things that they piggybacked on.

Derek Payne · (Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:57 pm)

What about drawings by cavemen?

Theldorrin · (Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:33 pm)

You wouldn't be the influential one, Chris, because you'd be interchangeable with any other person. The person that actually started the religion and promoted it would be responsible.

Plus you exist, which also breaks the analogy.

Anyway, social changes are generally much more group oriented than pre-modern science and art.

Fagzilla · (Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:36 pm)

What is it with anti-religion people and denying Jesus's existence?

Emerson was big on denying that Jesus existed. When I asked him, "why do you believe that? What is your reason for thinking that?" he just got all huffy and bullshitty.

Theldorrin · (Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:38 pm)

Because there's no actual reputable evidence that he existed in the first place, let alone did any of the things attributed to him.

I also don't believe that Heracles existed.

Fagzilla · (Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:44 pm)

That's what Emerson says.

Which is retarded.

"What? Why should I believe that he DID exist?"

Man. For the same reason you assume that anyone else said to have existed, existed.

I don't doubt Julius Caesar!

Fagzilla · (Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:48 pm)

What it really is is people with a grudge against Christianity trying to assemble as many reasons as possible to hate on it.

Theldorrin · (Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:53 pm)

No, you assume someone doesn't exist until there's evidence to the contrary.

That's actually a basic principle that you can apply to pretty much anything that is within the scope of empiricism.

And apparently you think there's no evidence that Julius Caesar existed, which is somewhat disturbing.

Derek Payne · (Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:55 pm)

I doubt the existence of William Shakespeare. It was more than likely a pseudonym for an educated noble.

Theldorrin · (Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:55 pm)

Chris, there's an Earth-like planet in the Andromeda galaxy that has a person that looks identical to you and is called Mary.

Now that I've said that Mary exists, you have to believe it.

YES · (Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:56 pm)

u cold hearted snake

Theldorrin · (Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:42 pm)

I'm going to define entire universes of people.

Fagzilla · (Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:45 pm)

If you're going to go around doubting things as your default attitude, fine, but you have to be consistent and doubt EVERYTHING. You, clearly, are not.

If you're going to call every historical account of Jesus into question (the Gospels for starters but obviously much more), then you're going to have to call every historical account of anything into question.

Derek Payne · (Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:46 pm)

The gayspels.

Theldorrin · (Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:09 pm)

Uh, the only historical accounts are from people that talk about his magickal powers. The rest are non-contemporaneous, and thus akin to me talking about Hitler.

Anyway, most major figures in history have actual historical accounts. Jesus just isn't one of them.

L Ron Butterfly · (Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:17 am)

Theldorrin is right. I'm pretty sure all the gospels are believed to have been written at least a hundred years after Jesus died.

No documents are attributed to Jesus or anybody like Peter who was actually close to Jesus.

Still, the whole mess had to come from somewhere, and until you propose a valid-sounding alternative theory, you have to at least accept that Jesus was a real cult leader in then-Israel.

Theldorrin · (Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:37 am)

No, you don't have to assume that he exists for that reason.

Ryoko's Biatch · (Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:18 am)

It would be pretty clever to start a new religion and say it was started by a dude who died 30 years ago.

Theldorrin · (Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:33 am)

I would wager that most religions claim to be older than they are (or there is evidence to support).

YES · (Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:18 pm)

what?