Dragon Ball Z Uncensored

[Magic Juan]

The first Narnia movie I went to, I smuggled in a ton of beers and shotgunned them during scenes and then got kicked out for drinking around kids.

Anyways Chris, I liked your posts in this thread, even if you were trolling.

[Fagzilla]

That's the... nicest thing you've ever said to me! ;_;

[Big Fagot]

Marina gets fed Turkish delight.

[ALDP]

"Plus CS Lewis is a little bit of a different kind of Christian. He went "kicking and screaming" (I'm paraphrasing) into that world, and he was never militant or propagandist about his religion. "

Chris, how exactly do you mean that? He is a famous apologist and theologian, right in the first sentence of his wikipedia entry. The only book I've read by him is the Screwtape Letters, which is an explicitly Christian book! Also I know a bunch of his other books are in my house, I've seen Mere Christianity before.

I haven't read the books or seen the movies but I think they're probably a lot more explicitly Christian than you're acknowledging. I mean it's one thing for everybody to use Jesus Christ himself as a symbol, which they do, but if the stories comprehensively deal with aspects of Christian cosmology (Which the stuff Yogurtman posted clearly show they do) then I don't think there is much of a case to be made that the stories soft-pedal a Christian angle. I don't think it is a valid criticism of the movies, anyway. If it doesn't negatively affect the overall majestic big screen CGI fantasy jerk-off experience they're going for, then what the fuck, are people not allowed to make religious movies?

[Jason]

I don't see how not explicitly saying that the lion is called Jesus in our world makes it decidedly ambiguous when the intent is clearly that he is (Jesus). Subtext is often just as canonical to a story as anything. And that's really not even subtext.

I have no familiarity with Narnia at all besides liking the Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe cartoon when I was young.
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Last edited by God on Fri Apr 05, 33 4:00 am; edited 1 time in total

[Fagzilla]

Well, my point is to say that the reader is free to interpret it in a different way, IF he chooses to. It's very open.

And the books are dealing with Christian cosmology, they're doing it with the absolutely vaguest of resemblance. It's hardly "comprehensive."

"The Witch approaches to speak with Aslan, insisting that she has the right to execute Edmund according to the decrees of "deep magic from the dawn of time". Aslan speaks with her privately and persuades her to renounce her claim on Edmund's life. That evening, Aslan mysteriously abandons camp and walks off alone, but he is followed by Lucy and Susan. Aslan has bargained with the Witch to exchange his own life for Edmund's. In a ritual ceremony, the Witch ties Aslan to the Stone Table and then kills him with a knife. The Witch is unfamiliar with "deeper magic from before the dawn of time", which states that if someone offers their life for another, death will be reversed. Aslan is therefore restored to life the following morning."

About the only thing that has in common with the historical Jesus story or Christian mysticism is that somebody martyrs himself sacrificially, dies, and comes back to life.

Jesus was killed by Romans for political reasons by being nailed to a cross (and, on the mystical side, was sacrificing himself "for all mankind's sins"), not tied to a table and stabbed by some 1000 year old bitch so that she could thwart a prophecy and have winter forever, in exchange for the life of some shitty little asshole kid. It's not even in the universe of similar, except for the dying and resurrecting part (the details of which are hardly alike, there's no "3 days" or anything like that).

As for the other books:

"The Magician's Nephew tells the Creation and how evil entered Narnia."
(In a story/situation that is absolutely nothing like the one in the Bible by any stretch)

"The Lion etc the Crucifixion and Resurrection."
(see above)

"Prince Caspian restoration of the true religion after corruption."
(This book reminded me far more of Princess Mononoke and some kind of Miyazakian idea about nature reclaiming the world from man than anything Christian)

"The Horse and His Boy the calling and conversion of a heathen."
(I haven't re-read this one yet)

"The Voyage of the "Dawn Treader" the spiritual life (especially in Reepicheep)."
("The spiritual life" can apply to ANY sort of spirituality. Reepicheep going off by himself at the end is like someone becoming a monk - whether Catholic or Buddhist, or Luke going to be a Jedi, or just generally withdrawing from the world and materialistic affairs and concerns)

"The Silver Chair the continuing war with the powers of darkness"
(Yeah, because no other story is about a war against the powers of darkness)

"The Last Battle the coming of the Antichrist (the Ape), the end of the world and the Last Judgement."
(Alright, THIS one is a lot more on the nose)

[Ryoko's Biatch]

Faggots.

[Fagzilla]

IT'S TIME!!!! TIME TO GO NOW!!!!

[Magic Juan]

This thing is with fantasy, you can kind of disregard a lot of THE SHIT because you, the reader, has agency to ignore it.

I am almost finished the Death Gate cycle and I'm sure it has a lot of christian shit much like Dragonlance did, but I really just fucking blow past it. Although, the Death Gate cycle is fucking garbage.

[Fagzilla]

I'm now up to three separate sightings of critics using "Voyage of the Yawn Treader" as a joke.

[Fagzilla]

Oh, and the movie was pretty good.

Not great, not bad (exactly as good as I was expecting, actually).

There was a solid lack of gay parts, and that's all I ask for nowadays. You know, with my CYNICISM and all!

[ALDP]

Wikipedia says that the books are based on lots of different mythologies and were not intended as allegory. But that doesn't mean you can take Aslan saying "In your world, I am known by a different name" and fill in whatever god you want. Even if you can make a shitty case for that specific example, the composite of all the references to Christianity is going to be Christian, and I can see no justification for a leap from "most religions have some superficial similarities" to "the deliberate allusions to Christianity in the Chronicles of Narnia could be about any religion." I get it that there is a universality to the stories but that doesn't mean it makes any sense to apply that universality to every specific thing in them.

[My Head Hurts 90]

Hahaha, Chris is in hell.

[Theldorrin]

I think if Aslan was in our world he'd be a lion god. There are a lot of those.
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@}-,-'- *~*~* Member of the FTU Elegant Tea Party Society *~*~* -'-,-{@

[Fagzilla]

Honestly, the points ALDP is making aren't THAT bad (in THIS thread), but yes, I am in hell.

Though I'm sure it will get a lot more horrible as we continue.

[Fagzilla]

And really, am I in hell... or is the real loser the audience?

[Jason]

"The real loser is the audience" could be used for any film with Vs. in its title.
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Last edited by God on Fri Apr 05, 33 4:00 am; edited 1 time in total

[Fagzilla]

This wasn't exactly the right thread in which to make that post.

[Fagzilla]

I'm sorry. I was just picking on you because it's so TEMPTING now.

[Theldorrin]

It's possible I was thinking of anime characters with lion heads and not actual lion deities. Because now I can't think of any.
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@}-,-'- *~*~* Member of the FTU Elegant Tea Party Society *~*~* -'-,-{@